Hi.

We've been playing Frontline for the last few months as pretty much the only MP Server we play on, and we all agree in our group that to date, It's the best 'dynamic' campaign we've seen.

One thing I loved immediately as a ground attack/bomber focused pilot was the sheer size of the factories.

I really enjoy High altitude bombing and seeing a stick of bombs wreaking havoc. however I am seeing a huge discrepancy.

Attacker/bomber Balance is just out of whack. Right now:

Axis:

HE111 H6

'Free' plane - 4 * SC250Kg - $1000, rank Gefreighter (0 points)

16 * SC50Kg - $3400, Obegfreighter (251 points)

Allied

PE2 s35

'Free' plane - 2 * FAB250SV - $1000, rank Private (0 points)

10 * FAB100 - $4600, rank Captain (5600 points).

The Free axis plane has twice the bombs for the same price.

The 'best' Allied loadout for high altitude 'stick' bombing (many small bombs) has a HUGE disparity in rank, and is a third more expensive.

In case the concern is Pe2 can also do ground attack, let's then compare the bf110 E2 with the PE2 for 'ground attack' loadout of as many small bombs apossible.

The 110E2 can carry 12 SC50s for $1011 at Stabsfeldwebel rank (1901). So a quarter of the cost, and rank to have more bombs,

I'm sorry - but as a bomber/attacker my view is that that balancing is broken. Please please please please can you change this so that bomber pilots on the allied side aren't shafted.

Thanks,

Arc

It's technically impossible to balance the inherently unbalanced bombers between the two sides.

That's why the Henkel carries more bombs, but it's slower and more vulnerable, while the Ju 88, with the same number of bombs, costs several times more.

Look at it from a different perspective, and you'll see that everything is perfectly configured. Don't just look at the bomb count.

It is a matter of providing the bomber players on both side a viable option to fly. So looking only at the 'bigger picture' alone does not help as it leaves one side with no good load out to fly, especially in the early stages.

26 minutes ago, Denisik said:

It's technically impossible to balance the inherently unbalanced bombers between the two sides.

That's why the Henkel carries more bombs, but it's slower and more vulnerable, while the Ju 88, with the same number of bombs, costs several times more.

Look at it from a different perspective, and you'll see that everything is perfectly configured. Don't just look at the bomb count.

Not asking for 'perfect' balance, I'm asking for 'not completely imbalanced'. Right now - the Allied bomber is completely overshadowed by both HE11 and Bf110.

The biggest problem right now is the rank requirement - Captain is a huge grind to even get to. And the poor returns on a single +1 hour long range bombing mission makes a single loss extremely painful, both in points loss and cost.

I did not include the Ju88 in my original post as the 'basic' bomber each side has and loadout it has available needs to be 'comparable' - and the Ju88 can be 'balanced' separately.

The Pe-2 flies faster. While the He-111 makes one flight with four bombs, the Pe-2 makes two flights with two bombs. Mathematically, both pilots will deliver approximately the same number of bombs to the target in the same amount of time. I understand this.

We cannot balance speed and climb rate. @Denisik_FL flies for both coalitions and is well aware of the challenges and balance of both sides.

I think you're missing the main issue I am raising. Speed/climb rate differences is understood. However there are two variables being used to balance as far as I can see, Rank, and Cost.

Currently - I can understand the 'cost' side of the equation, what I cannot understand is the rank lock.

You could, with speed/number of bombs get a cost/bomb/hour for each sides bomber airframe to use as the 'balancing' mechanism, however the rank lock is based on overall performance over time so is acting as a barrier to use that cannot be balanced due to the infinite number of variables to get that rank.

Why does the PE2 need a rank of Captain to unlock 10 bombs? What is the logic behind such a high gating of a 'capability'.

Just getting to be able to risk 10 bombs in the peshka takes 5800 points. That's ~10 logistics flights currently.

Getting 12 bombs in the he111 takes 1. That's an order of magnitude difference, and the HE111 is not an order of magnitude slower than the Peshka.

As a separate point, this massively imbalances 'team play' mechanics.

To get a ship of 4 pe2 with 10 bombs apiece needs 4 players with Captain (>20000pts), and risks $18400.

To get the equivalent number of bombs on target for axis needs either:

4HE111 - 1000pts total, and $13600 or even worse,

A single He11 (obergefreighter), and 3 Bf110e2s (Stabsfeldwebel) dropping on command - risks 6000 pts, and $6400 only.

Those numbers are too widely disparate to make it 'fun' to fly as an Allied Bomber pilot.

Edited March 29Mar 29 by SIA_ArcTander

I ran a quick test on a 100km bombing run timing the following profile:

Take off, best climb to 4Km, set bombsight, release, return at 4Km, begin dive to airfield 30Km out, land. Wind set to 0. Both bombers set to 50% fuel.

PE2 S35 - 10 bombs

Time to 4Km - 9m 31s

Time to Release - 17m 37s, Speed on drop - 370KPH

Time to engines off - 30m 27s = 1827s

1827/10 = 182.7 seconds per bomb

He11 H6 - 16 bombs

Time to 4Km - 15m 46s

Time to Release - 21m 42s, Speed on drop - 310KPH

Time to engines off - 37m 39s = 2259s

2259/16 = 141.2 seconds per bomb.

So for a 100km distance, the He111 H6 is more efficient in fact than the Pe2. I would expect that the Pe2 will become slightly more efficient as bomb runs get longer, however most runs are in my experience 100KM to 150KM.

While, I can therefore, understand having a slightly increased cost for the PE2 (though a 35% increase seems a bit steep) the rank lock discrepancy for having a load of more, smaller bombs is completely superfluous and should (based on above bomb per second) be brought back down to the same as the He111 to give Allied high altitude bomber pilots a viable option sooner.

What this also shows however is that a PE2 does not make two trips to the He111's single trip at a representative distance.

Edited March 29Mar 29 by SIA_ArcTander

9 hours ago, SIA_ArcTander said:

Hi.

We've been playing Frontline for the last few months as pretty much the only MP Server we play on, and we all agree in our group that to date, It's the best 'dynamic' campaign we've seen.

One thing I loved immediately as a ground attack/bomber focused pilot was the sheer size of the factories.

I really enjoy High altitude bombing and seeing a stick of bombs wreaking havoc. however I am seeing a huge discrepancy.

Attacker/bomber Balance is just out of whack. Right now:

Axis:

HE111 H6

'Free' plane - 4 * SC250Kg - $1000, rank Gefreighter (0 points)

16 * SC50Kg - $3400, Obegfreighter (251 points)

Allied

PE2 s35

'Free' plane - 2 * FAB250SV - $1000, rank Private (0 points)

10 * FAB100 - $4600, rank Captain (5600 points).

The Free axis plane has twice the bombs for the same price.

The 'best' Allied loadout for high altitude 'stick' bombing (many small bombs) has a HUGE disparity in rank, and is a third more expensive.

In case the concern is Pe2 can also do ground attack, let's then compare the bf110 E2 with the PE2 for 'ground attack' loadout of as many small bombs apossible.

The 110E2 can carry 12 SC50s for $1011 at Stabsfeldwebel rank (1901). So a quarter of the cost, and rank to have more bombs,

I'm sorry - but as a bomber/attacker my view is that that balancing is broken. Please please please please can you change this so that bomber pilots on the allied side aren't shafted.

Thanks,

Arc

That is why it's good to play once red once blue. Than you may see complete picture. I played last encounter Blue (last 20 years of IL-2 FB I played RED), now again Red side. I think you see only what you want to see.
1. True He-111 takes nice payload of bombs. That's a plus.
2. He-111 is terribly slow 230 IAS on climb, 290kmh IAS in cruise. With 4 x SC250 one can reach 5 000 - 5 500m altitude.
3. Survivability are very low. Usually 1 hit by 85mm AAA and bomber is lost. It doesn't' have to be a direct hit. Also 7,9mm MG 15 is useless against any fighter. 20mm you can place only in "wanne" or "Kanzelarie" - theys shoot only front. Pe-2 offers much better defence. Speed and good 12,7mm defence on most vulnerable sector.
4. Blue side lost all their maps in last campaigns. In spite of slightly bigger amount of players, slightly more flight hours etc. Are you seriously suggesting that red side is in unfair disadvantage?
5. H-6 is free, and takes 4x SC250, but any further update is insanely expensive up to a nonsense point. H-16 is just as slow as H-6, but better defensive armed. However in 1942 it's no use. It's too slow. Everyone likes Ju-88 more, because it's faster, and climbs higher. I took H-16 once to mission and then never again. Why? In case of plane lost there's massive money lost and score lost. In case of enemy fighters (like La-5 or Lagg-3) extra armament won't save you.

My advice is - try He-111 first. It sounds like you didn't flew it much.

Edited March 29Mar 29 by Kermit7heFrog

Thanks for the tests, for the suggestions.

Mathematically, maybe the Pe-2 is not a double advantage over the He-111. We didn't say, but when "balancing", we are guided not only by flight, technical, combat characteristics. We also look at the attitude of the players themselves to this or that technique. On the versatility of application. Probably you will agree that the Pe-2 is much more versatile aircraft than the He-111?

Our goal is to ensure that not only the best aircraft in terms of efficiency meet in the sky, but also others that are less efficient and therefore less popular.

We have a "Losses" section, however, it is only available with a premium account. But that's not the point. The bottom line is that you can see how many flights were made on a particular technique and how many of them ended with the loss of the aircraft.

Here are the screenshots:

The screenshots show how many aircraft were lost / how many sorties were made (the ratio of losses to successful sorties)

This is for the entire previous campaign #18

As you can see, the popularity of the He-111 leaves much to be desired. It is used relatively to the Pe-2 only in 15% of cases.

I believe that with such a significant advantage, there is no need to worry about four bombs versus two. Do you think I am right?

By the way, the Pe-2 had more losses than the He-111 had combat missions.

To kill four Pe-2s, you need three or four Bf-109 F4s (the E7s and F2s simply won't catch you). To kill four He-111s, you need one I-16.

On 3/29/2026 at 11:36 PM, Kermit7heFrog said:

That is why it's good to play once red once blue. Than you may see complete picture. I played last encounter Blue (last 20 years of IL-2 FB I played RED), now again Red side. I think you see only what you want to see.
1. True He-111 takes nice payload of bombs. That's a plus.
2. He-111 is terribly slow 230 IAS on climb, 290kmh IAS in cruise. With 4 x SC250 one can reach 5 000 - 5 500m altitude.
3. Survivability are very low. Usually 1 hit by 85mm AAA and bomber is lost. It doesn't' have to be a direct hit. Also 7,9mm MG 15 is useless against any fighter. 20mm you can place only in "wanne" or "Kanzelarie" - theys shoot only front. Pe-2 offers much better defence. Speed and good 12,7mm defence on most vulnerable sector.
4. Blue side lost all their maps in last campaigns. In spite of slightly bigger amount of players, slightly more flight hours etc. Are you seriously suggesting that red side is in unfair disadvantage?
5. H-6 is free, and takes 4x SC250, but any further update is insanely expensive up to a nonsense point. H-16 is just as slow as H-6, but better defensive armed. However in 1942 it's no use. It's too slow. Everyone likes Ju-88 more, because it's faster, and climbs higher. I took H-16 once to mission and then never again. Why? In case of plane lost there's massive money lost and score lost. In case of enemy fighters (like La-5 or Lagg-3) extra armament won't save you.

My advice is - try He-111 first. It sounds like you didn't flew it much.

We do the same, one map per side. I fly the He111 lots. Check my stats.

On 3/30/2026 at 12:07 AM, -DED-Zlodey said:

Thanks for the tests, for the suggestions.

Mathematically, maybe the Pe-2 is not a double advantage over the He-111. We didn't say, but when "balancing", we are guided not only by flight, technical, combat characteristics. We also look at the attitude of the players themselves to this or that technique. On the versatility of application. Probably you will agree that the Pe-2 is much more versatile aircraft than the He-111?

Our goal is to ensure that not only the best aircraft in terms of efficiency meet in the sky, but also others that are less efficient and therefore less popular.

We have a "Losses" section, however, it is only available with a premium account. But that's not the point. The bottom line is that you can see how many flights were made on a particular technique and how many of them ended with the loss of the aircraft.

Here are the screenshots:

The screenshots show how many aircraft were lost / how many sorties were made (the ratio of losses to successful sorties)

This is for the entire previous campaign #18

As you can see, the popularity of the He-111 leaves much to be desired. It is used relatively to the Pe-2 only in 15% of cases.

I believe that with such a significant advantage, there is no need to worry about four bombs versus two. Do you think I am right?

By the way, the Pe-2 had more losses than the He-111 had combat missions.

No worries. Thanks for the stats. Looking at the stats survivability ratio looks on par.

Thinking about it - the airframe survivability being the same (though not the low sorties of He111 sadly) isn't the core of my argument. It's the rank lock of the 10 bombs of the PE2 to Captain.

That's the biggest deviation between the two and is tbh what kicked off this train of thought and thread, and I would strongly encouraging bringing that rank requirement down significantly. 50% less at least. Senior seargent/sergaent major would be high enough to make it easier to get more bombs on a He111, but still within the realm of ability for people who fly a couple of times a week, and make single losses of the airframe less frustrating.

Not sure how to increase the number of he111 flights, tbh - I suspect that most people don't fly the he111 when flying axis is because the Bf110 with 12 50s is allowed on the server (and rightly so!).

Could incentivise He111 flights by doubling $ or rank payout when using it, though that might be too artificial?